| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kaik |
Posted - Aug 10 2007 : 10:40:54
Dear forum members,
do you think it is possible (do I get correct results) to simulate a solenoid? To show what I mean, there is an example below.
I already did that and also measured "real-world" values. The results are in the same region, but differ: measured values @ 300MHz: 12.7nH and 580mOhm, simulated values: 16.5nH and 950mOhm.
Well, this is not that bad, but with looking at a larger frequency range (up to the GHz-range), one recognizes that there is almost no agreement between measurement and simulation. I know that the real world is not like in computer [:)], but I thought I get a better similarity. Or that measured resistances are higher than simulated ones...
What do you think? Does this have something to do, that no capacitive behavior is included in the simulation? Or that I don't have enough filaments? Or that a rectangular cross-section in not applicable for a wire?
Regards,
Kai
------
.Units MM
* conductivity of gold
.Default sigma=4.52e4
* filaments per elements
.Default nhinc=3
.Default nwinc=3
* height and width of each element
.Default w=0.025
.Default h=0.025
* nodes and elements
N00001 x=00000000000 y=0000000.345 z=00000000000
N00002 x=000000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.00145
N00003 x=000000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0029
N00004 x=000000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.00435
N00005 x=000000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0058
N00006 x=0000000.345 y=02.113e-017 z=00000.00725
N00007 x=000000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0087
N00008 x=000000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.01015
N00009 x=000000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0116
N00010 x=000000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.01305
N00011 x=04.225e-017 y=-000000.345 z=000000.0145
N00012 x=-00000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.01595
N00013 x=-00000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0174
N00014 x=-00000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.01885
N00015 x=-00000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0203
N00016 x=-000000.345 y=-6.338e-017 z=00000.02175
N00017 x=-00000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0232
N00018 x=-00000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.02465
N00019 x=-00000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0261
N00020 x=-00000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.02755
N00021 x=-08.45e-017 y=0000000.345 z=0000000.029
N00022 x=000000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.03045
N00023 x=000000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0319
N00024 x=000000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.03335
N00025 x=000000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0348
N00026 x=0000000.345 y=01.056e-016 z=00000.03625
N00027 x=000000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0377
N00028 x=000000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.03915
N00029 x=000000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0406
N00030 x=000000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.04205
N00031 x=01.268e-016 y=-000000.345 z=000000.0435
N00032 x=-00000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.04495
N00033 x=-00000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0464
N00034 x=-00000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.04785
N00035 x=-00000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0493
N00036 x=-000000.345 y=-1.479e-016 z=00000.05075
N00037 x=-00000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0522
N00038 x=-00000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.05365
N00039 x=-00000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0551
N00040 x=-00000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.05655
N00041 x=-01.69e-016 y=0000000.345 z=0000000.058
N00042 x=000000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.05945
N00043 x=000000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0609
N00044 x=000000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.06235
N00045 x=000000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0638
N00046 x=0000000.345 y=01.901e-016 z=00000.06525
N00047 x=000000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0667
N00048 x=000000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.06815
N00049 x=000000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0696
N00050 x=000000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.07105
N00051 x=02.113e-016 y=-000000.345 z=000000.0725
N00052 x=-00000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=00000.07395
N00053 x=-00000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0754
N00054 x=-00000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.07685
N00055 x=-00000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0783
N00056 x=-000000.345 y=-8.452e-016 z=00000.07975
N00057 x=-00000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0812
N00058 x=-00000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.08265
N00059 x=-00000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0841
N00060 x=-00000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.08555
N00061 x=-2.535e-016 y=0000000.345 z=0000000.087
N00062 x=000000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=00000.08845
N00063 x=000000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.0899
N00064 x=000000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=00000.09135
N00065 x=000000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.0928
N00066 x=0000000.345 y=-3.382e-016 z=00000.09425
N00067 x=000000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.0957
N00068 x=000000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=00000.09715
N00069 x=000000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.0986
N00070 x=000000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=000000.1001
N00071 x=02.958e-016 y=-000000.345 z=000000.1015
N00072 x=-00000.1066 y=-00000.3281 z=0000000.103
N00073 x=-00000.2028 y=-00000.2791 z=000000.1044
N00074 x=-00000.2791 y=-00000.2028 z=000000.1059
N00075 x=-00000.3281 y=-00000.1066 z=000000.1073
N00076 x=-000000.345 y=-9.297e-016 z=000000.1088
N00077 x=-00000.3281 y=000000.1066 z=000000.1102
N00078 x=-00000.2791 y=000000.2028 z=000000.1117
N00079 x=-00000.2028 y=000000.2791 z=000000.1131
N00080 x=-00000.1066 y=000000.3281 z=000000.1146
N00081 x=-03.38e-016 y=0000000.345 z=0000000.116
E00001 N00001 N00002
E00002 N00002 N00003
E00003 N00003 N00004
E00004 N00004 N00005
E00005 N00005 N00006
E00006 N00006 N00007
E00007 N00007 N00008
E00008 N00008 N00009
E00009 N00009 N00010
E00010 N00010 N00011
E00011 N00011 N00012
E00012 N00012 N00013
E00013 N00013 N00014
E00014 N00014 N00015
E00015 N00015 N00016
E00016 N00016 N00017
E00017 N00017 N00018
E00018 N00018 N00019
E00019 N00019 N00020
E00020 N00020 N00021
E00021 N00021 N00022
E00022 N00022 N00023
E00023 N00023 N00024
E00024 N00024 N00025
E00025 N00025 N00026
E00026 N00026 N00027
E00027 N00027 N00028
E00028 N00028 N00029
E00029 N00029 N00030
E00030 N00030 N00031
E00031 N00031 N00032
E00032 N00032 N00033
E00033 N00033 N00034
E00034 N00034 N00035
E00035 N00035 N00036
E00036 N00036 N00037
E00037 N00037 N00038
E00038 N00038 N00039
E00039 N00039 N00040
E00040 N00040 N00041
E00041 N00041 N00042
E00042 N00042 N00043
E00043 N00043 N00044
E00044 N00044 N00045
E00045 N00045 N00046
E00046 N00046 N00047
E00047 N00047 N00048
E00048 N00048 N00049
E00049 N00049 N00050
E00050 N00050 N00051
E00051 N00051 N00052
E00052 N00052 N00053
E00053 N00053 N00054
E00054 N00054 N00055
E00055 N00055 N00056
E00056 N00056 N00057
E00057 N00057 N00058
E00058 N00058 N00059
E00059 N00059 N00060
E00060 N00060 N00061
E00061 N00061 N00062
E00062 N00062 N00063
E00063 N00063 N00064
E00064 N00064 N00065
E00065 N00065 N00066
E00066 N00066 N00067
E00067 N00067 N00068
E00068 N00068 N00069
E00069 N00069 N00070
E00070 N00070 N00071
E00071 N00071 N00072
E00072 N00072 N00073
E00073 N00073 N00074
E00074 N00074 N00075
E00075 N00075 N00076
E00076 N00076 N00077
E00077 N00077 N00078
E00078 N00078 N00079
E00079 N00079 N00080
E00080 N00080 N00081
* port
.external N00001 N00081
* frequency range of interest.
.freq fmin=1e0 fmax=1e12 ndec=10
.end |
| 2 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kaik |
Posted - Nov 23 2007 : 10:35:08
Dear Enrico,
thanks for the response and sorry for the late reply.
I wanted to simulate the behavior of gold wire wrapped around a glass capillary as post. The wire has a diameter of 25um and the post around 700um.
So, my solenoids are no integrated inductors. Just normal wire.
This is why I'm surprised about the "not so very good" simulation results.
Anyone an idea?
Kai |
| Enrico |
Posted - Sep 12 2007 : 17:09:24
Your solenoids appear to be quite small; may I ask how they are realized? Are they on Si substrate?
The way they are realized may influence the measurements at high frequencies and explain the differences between the results from an ideal model and the real one. For instance, I know, even if not being an expert on this field, that Si integrated inductances (for RF ICs) are tricky.
Enrico
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